Hafta 494: Jammu and Kashmir attacks, Cauvery dispute, kanwar yatra

This week, Newslaundry’s Abhinandan Sekhri, Manisha Pande and Raman Kirpal were joined by Anisha Sheth, associate editor of The News Minute, and Anuradha Bhasin, executive editor of Kashmir Times.

On the slew of terrorist attacks in Jammu and Kashmir last month, Anuradha asks why are locals so dissatisfied that they aid terrorists. “There's scepticism over the future of the J&K legislative assembly…we can see a symbolic government with limited power over municipal issues and centre-controlled projects.” Abhinandan compares it to the Delhi government vs lieutenant governor Vinai Kumar Saxena equation.

On Karnataka refusing to release Cauvery water to Tamil Nadu, Anisha notes that the water-sharing dispute has cropped up despite normal rainfall. “No Chief Minister has ever taken an openly cooperative stand even though they quietly make under-the-table arrangements to share water among the states.” Manisha says it could be a strategy to deflect attention from the criticism of the Karnataka Reservation Bill for jobs quota.

The panel also discusses the allegations made in the Muda land scam and  Muzaffarnagar police’s order to eateries on the Kanwar yatra route, asking them to display the names of their owners and staff.

This and more. Tune in!

Watch it here.

Hafta letters: Protocols, NEET ‘scam’, Ambani wedding 

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Song: Dilli Se Hu

Timecodes

00:00:00 - Introduction

00:03:50 - Headlines 

00:06:13 - Panel discusses Kanwar Yatra 

00:11:08 - Back to headlines

00:17:13 - Terror attacks in Jammu and Kashmir

00:30:33 - Anuradha’s recommendation

00:32:01 - Cauvery water dispute

00:41:40 - Karnataka bill for reservation in jobs

00:54:35 - MUDA land scam

00:58:58 - Anisha’s recommendation

01:02:40 - Letters

01:26:30 - Panel recommendations 

References

NL Sena: NEET Exam Controversy

NL-TNM joint subscription

A Dismantled State : The Untold Story of Kashmir After Article 370

SC asks NTA to publish centre-wise NEET results

IIT-Delhi expert questions IIT-M claim of ‘no abnormality’ in NEET-UG 2024

Impact on Amarnath yatra, assembly poll plan: J&K attacks pose early test for Modi 3.0, opposition

Why Karnataka’s Bill on quota for locals in private sector should be dropped

Cauvery Chronicles

People’s Linguistic Survey of India, The Languages of Karnataka, Volume 14, Part II

33,000 trees to be felled for proposed Kanwar pilgrimage route

To Amar, Akbar, Anthony

Why Anant Ambani is so unique? by Shobha De

Siddaramaiah claims innocence in MUDA land scam: Why it’s not so simple

Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis

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Produced and recorded by Aryan Mahtta, edited by Hassan Bilal  and Umrav Singh.

Hafta 494 full audio

Manisha: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry Podcast and you're listening to NL 

Abhinandan: Hafta. Welcome to the 494th episode of NL Hafta. And before I even get into the headlines and introducing the panel, I just want to say that in a moment of excitement, I had committed that we will record our 500th episode live, just like we'd done, I think, at 200th episode live in Delhi.

And many of our subscribers, all these live sessions happen in Delhi. So I said, the 500th episode will be recorded live, but not in Delhi. Now, my colleagues in the team that manages finances have told, informed me that if we were to fly everybody out and record a hafta in an auditorium, we're looking at a cost of four to five lakhs.

So I said, okay, but commitment de diya to de diya because we are like Salman Khan. So now I just want you [00:01:00] to write to us at Abhinandan Sekhri at. Gmail. com. AbhinandanSekhar. gmail. com. If any of our subscribers have friends, relatives, chacha, chachi, batija, uncle, auntie, who have an auditorium, uh, and we will set up a separate Sena project so that we can raise at least three, three and a half lakhs.

So at least. Uh, travel, et cetera, can be born and, you know, whatever one day staying in local transport, but a big cost is going to be an auditorium. So if any of you in any city, which has significant amount of subscribers has a place which can seat a hundred people in an auditorium. We will come there and shoot.

Of course, the options of Bangalore are there because our partner's news minute is there. So Dhanya and her team can join us from there. And there are a few options there as well, but even those are expensive options. So write to me at Abhinandan com. Tell me where we can come and record this live. And then we'll have an interaction with the audience and what can be done to subsidize that trip as far as, uh, if you, many of you may have a [00:02:00] hotel, so you can put us up.

Or an auditorium, right? So that's the opening. On that note, uh, in the studio, we have our editor in chief, Raman Kripal. Hi, sir. Manisha Pandey. 

Manisha: Hello. Oh, and I've 

Abhinandan: come to Hafta 

Manisha: after three weeks. Three 

Abhinandan: weeks. Yeah. 

Manisha: Uninterrupted break. 

Abhinandan: First time I've missed so much of Hafta. My God. Did 

Manisha: you miss Hafta? 

Abhinandan: Uh, yeah.

I 

Manisha: withdrawal symptoms on Thursday. 

Abhinandan: I, I missed work. 

Manisha: You talk for three hours continuously. 

Abhinandan: No, I didn't 

Manisha: add someone missing, missing the podcast 

Abhinandan: and joining us online. Uh, from, uh, partner organization NewsMinute is Anisha Seth. Uh, she's associate editor of the News Minute. Uh, she is a journalist and an educator.

She's taught at ACJ, that's Asian College of Journalism, and she is in the past been with the Hindu and the New Indian Express and Reuters. Welcome, Anisha. 

Anisha Sheth: Hi. 

Abhinandan: Much excitement in your part of the world, huh? 

Anisha Sheth: Yes, things [00:03:00] never seem to quieten down here, at least not for the last four, five months. 

Abhinandan: Yes, we shall get into that.

And also joining us is, um, Anuradha Bhasin. Welcome 

Anuradha Bhasin: Anuradha. Thank you. 

Abhinandan: Hello. Hello. Uh, most of our audience may already know Anuradha. She is a journalist for over three decades, executive editor of Kashmir Times. In fact, she has written for News Laundry also. Quite often, her work on the Kashmir conflict, human rights and politics has appeared in national and international publications.

And she's the author of a dismantled state, the untold story of Kashmir after article 370. And if you want to read that book, the link is in the show notes below. Uh, you can order it and I highly recommend it because, uh, books by credible journalists will only add to your knowledge and information. So you can become a more well informed and rounded human being.

On that note. Manisha Pandey, what are the headlines? 

Manisha: Yes, grim headlines. Actually, we start with a new [00:04:00] wave of terrorist attacks have hit the region of Jammu and Kashmir. On Sunday, three militants were killed in an anti infiltration operation in Kupwara district. Weapons and other warlike stores were recovered in this operation.

Then on Monday, four Indian army personnel died in an operation fighting militants in Doda district. And I think there's some news trickling in, though not confirmed, that the militants in the, uh, on Monday. Uh, they are maybe Pakistani army regulars, but we don't know if it's controlled or not. I'm 

Abhinandan: sure RA will tell us.

Will be able to tell us some. Yeah. Meanwhile, 

Manisha: the Ministry of Home Affairs has amended the transaction of business rules to increase the power of the LG of Jamo and Kashmir in matters related to police public order. All in India services transfers and posting in BIS that were held across seven states.

The India block parties won 10 of the 13 assembly states while the BGP won two seats. 

Raman: Mm. 

Manisha: Meanwhile, lots happening in Uttar Pradesh. Knives are out, as some headlines are saying, but Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yoge Detanath said that [00:05:00] overconfidence kept the BGP from achieving the desired success in Uttar Pradesh.

Uh, Keshav Maurya said that Sangathan is more important than the party. 

Abhinandan: And he's camping out in Delhi. 

Manisha: Yeah, he's camping out in Delhi and the UP State Party President Bhupendra Singh Choudhury met Prime Minister Narendra Modi. So there's some rumblings happening and Akhilesh has tweeted out some monsoon offer.

Ki banao. 

Raman: So he's like, 

Manisha: the Kaveri River water dispute between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka fled up again after the Congress led Karnataka government said it can only release 8000 cusecs of water from the Kaveri Nadu. As against the 11, 000 CUSECs directed by the Cauvery Water Regulation Committee. 

Abhinandan: And CUSECs is cubic feet per second.

Manisha: Yes. 

Abhinandan: Right. 

Manisha: The Karnataka cabinet cleared a bill on Monday mandating 50 percent reservation in jobs and management positions and 75 percent in non management positions for locals and private industries. They took it back that very [00:06:00] evening. State Industries Minister MB Patil said that the bill will be withheld until further consultations and due diligence, and asked the industry leaders Not to panic.

There's a lot of backlash to this. We can discuss this with Aneesha maybe. Authorities in Uttar Pradesh's Muzaffarnagar district have directed dhabas, food stalls, and hotels along the Kawar Yata pilgrimage route to display the names of their owners and operators to quote unquote avoid confusion among devotees.

Ki kahin aapko kisi musalman ne samosa to nahi khila diya is pawan yatra mein. I, I, 

Abhinandan: what confusion is what I want to know like. 

Manisha: Just idiotic. 

Abhinandan: Well, uh, you, you know, I just want, because we're not going to be discussing this in some detail. If I could just get our panelists in on this. Also Giriraj Singh, as the Panchajanya is reporting, says, quote, Musalmano ko yaha rehne diya gaya, yeh sabse badi galti hui.

Jab desh ka vibhajan dharm ke aadhar par hua tha, fir Musalmano yaha na rehne diya gaya hota, toh aaj yeh naubat nahi aati. Kya 

Manisha: naubat? I don't know 

Abhinandan: what naubat. But [00:07:00] this, uh, does this. You know, Kavadi Yatra in North and especially UP, Delhi is up every year. It leads to all sorts of shenanigans and shindis and at red lights and traffic signals, people beating each other up.

Not people beating each other, usually many coward people beating up cars. Does this kind of stuff have any kind of impact in the South, Anisha? I mean, are you even aware of what a Kavadi Yatra is or this is just noise for the North? 

Anisha Sheth: A little bit of noise from the north, but yeah, I know there's a huge deal that happens.

I'm not sure what the religious significance of why they do it and so on. But yeah, in down south here in Karnataka, at least we have a different version of it where a lot of violence happens over, um, Ganesh uh, processions. Which was yesterday, 

Abhinandan: Muharram. Yeah. Was there anything this time? Was there any significant political rumblings, statements, inflammatory speech, anything or not really?

Anisha Sheth: Not that much. I think this time [00:08:00] around, but it is known to happen. And see, what usually happens is that there is when something does happen, there would have been days off, um, minus commissions and things like that, which would precede it. And then it kind of flares up. Or what often happens is that, uh, During Ganesh Chaturthi processions, they will insist on the procession through Muslim dominated areas.

Raman: Okay. 

Anisha Sheth: And then you will find, you know, somebody will say some, make some provocative slogan and then there is stone pelting and all that kind of stuff happens. So in the recent past, it's not been that much, but it's been known to happen here. 

Raman: Hmm. 

Abhinandan: Right. Right. And, and Radha, what do you make of this?

Dictator, the Muzaffarnagar police, what confusion do you think they are trying to avoid by putting everyone's names outside the shops? Can you speculate on what would the confusion be? 

Anuradha Bhasin: Yeah, it's quite obvious. I don't think we need to kind of elaborate on [00:09:00] what seems to be obvious is not true. To make a distinction between what kind of food is being served, but who is serving it?

Um, and what are their identities? And that's, uh, an indication in, in today's India, when, uh, minorities are being marginalized, uh, lynched, attacked, targeted, especially Muslims. So it's an indication of what this really means. 

Manisha: And 

Anuradha Bhasin: it's the police. 

Raman: No, no, but, uh, I think all these orders come from the 

Abhinandan: top. Yeah.

And they're defending it now that this is actually a sensible thing to do. I 

Manisha: think, you know, 

Anuradha Bhasin: by and large, gradually Uh, bit by bit, step by step, they are, uh, doing a religious profiling in different ways. [00:10:00] And it's becoming more and more systemic, you know, this is 

Raman: true 

Anuradha Bhasin: that there have been you keep hearing of stories of how there is a religious profiling in, uh, schools in, you know.

But there have been bits and pieces here and there and it's becoming, I think it's, it's, it's something that points out to a larger pattern and before we know it, it'll all be very, very systemic. 

Abhinandan: Now, and also I think the biggest failure is of the media because, uh, two videos have emerged in the last four days, one of a demolition drive, a regular demolition drive, which turned into hijacked by these, uh, you know, Right wing Hindutva type goons who started breaking a mosque, which is not actually part of the demolition drive.

They got onto it and started chanting. I'm sure you also, yeah, that did not make prime time debates and the attacks on the Christian prayer meeting, uh, that also did not make prime time, but prime time will discuss so and so tweeted something, some loser like Amit Malviya tweeted some bullshit, which is [00:11:00] what he's job profile is.

Uh, and that becomes a prime time debate, but that's, that's the media for you. The biggest failure, I think, is there. 

Manisha: A bench headed by CGI is hearing more than 40 petitions alleging irregularities and malpractices in the conduct of the medical entrance exam NEET UG 2000. 2024. The bench has noted that 61 students across India got 720 out of 720, out of which 44 students got the benefit of that one question where there were two correct answers.

I think today the court also mentioned a report that News Laundry had done. 

Raman: Uh, not the report as such, but what News Laundry had done an exclusive story from Gujarat that how Uh, the students from, you know, different states, they opted Gujarat as an, uh, as a center and they gave their exam in Gujarati language.

So, and we are giving exam in Gujarati language. So we raised that issue. So today the Supreme court, this issue was discussed along those lines. And, [00:12:00] and, uh, the Supreme court has said that they need, uh, you know, data of one lakh, Top students who had shifted their centers, who went out of their states. So this is the, uh, something which is, and in fact, we've done about 

Abhinandan: four stories on it already.

We have done five, five and it's an 

Manisha: NSNR project, which still hasn't been topped. And it's an 

Abhinandan: NSNR project. Many of you had written in that we should, you know, do a deep dive investigation into this. And we've already done five stories and there's still more. A video is coming and the total budget of this Sena project was 6, 45, 000 and as we are recording this only 1, 75, 000 has been topped up.

We have had, you know, other NL Sena projects that were topped up within like five, six days. This has been up for, I think a week now, maybe more. 

Raman: And we traveled four states. 

Abhinandan: We've traveled to four states. So guys, please chip in. Let's just top this up. Hopefully by the time I'm recording next hafta, I will not lay a guilt trip on you.

If you don't pay for this, then I'll just tell Mukesh bhai that. Do one. Watch this way also. And you know, maybe we can find a few stories and [00:13:00] we can tell everyone how great is. . Or you guys drop this up here. Huh? Come on. Choke up. Get to the program guys. When the public pays, the public is served, please top up this SYNAP project.

All If you have doctors in your family, tell them to put this link on all the WhatsApp groups and say, doctors, please put this in. Otherwise we will just go to Irish ministry and BA they can cure us. 

Manisha: Union Home Minister Amit Shah has announced that the government has decided to observe June 25th, that's Samvidhan Hathya Diwas.

Uh, this is the day when emergency was declared back in 1975. I just found it funny that, like, Diwas is always something positive. 

Abhinandan: Like, it's 

Manisha: funny to have a Hathya Diwas. 

Abhinandan: Yeah. 

Manisha: Like to celebrate, like 

Raman: if Indira Gandhi knew the ways to avoid emergency and yet have the impact of emergency on people. Yeah, exactly.

Should learn from Modi. 

Manisha: You know, there's a big political controversy brewing in Karnataka. The government there has constituted a one man judicial commission to look into allegations of [00:14:00] irregularity against chief minister Sudarmaya. The allegation is that his wife. was illegally allotted 14 alternative sites for her 3.

16 acres of land. This land was acquired by Mysuru Urban Development Authority and then she was allegedly illegally given alternate sites. 

Raman: And it wasn't, uh, shown in the, uh, you know, affidavit submitted to election commission during 

Manisha: Tell us a lot about this. Bangladesh will indefinitely shut down all public private universities after massive countrywide protests against a controversial quota system and government jobs have left at least six dead and 400 injured.

Some visuals making our way into the Indian news also from there. And the biggest story of the week, actually the biggest big global headline was, uh, an attempted assassination on Donald Trump and a rally at a campaign event in Pennsylvania by this 20 year old guy. We don't know much about it, but, uh, 

Abhinandan: I mean, we [00:15:00] do know that he had won some math contest and got 500 and he was this genius kid who was a loner and was bullied by the same profile of most shooters.

But 

Manisha: the motive is not clear yet. But even 

Abhinandan: this will not lead to any gun reform there. I mean, they love their guns so much that they'll risk the lives of. That was the strangest part 

Manisha: of the story that the guy actually just asked his father for his rifle that I want to go to the shooting range and practice and the father just gave it to him.

Like that part of the story was most struck me as most bizarre as an Indian is that easy. But anyway, he's immersed out of it and there's an iconic picture now that may just turn the election. With AP's picture with Trump with his fist in the air and saying fight. 

Abhinandan: That was pretty cool. So, uh, on that note, let's get into the discussion, but first this announcement, the News Laundry News Minute joint subscription.

Now I would recommend you take this subscription because it gives you access to things on both platforms. We [00:16:00] have launched this joint subscription because we can get a force multiplier of the News Laundry reader and the News Minute reader and subscriber to support each other. So we can become a truly pan India platform and we can get you news to rival any legacy media.

So in July, we have many exciting stories coming up, which will be only for our subscribers. So there'll be a lot of paywall content, both on their platform and on ours. So get the joint News Media News Laundry subscription, not just that. Dhanya Rajendran, the editor in chief of News Minute, publishes a newsletter called Power Trip, so you get access to the Power Trip 2.

And this month, we are organizing a subscriber only meetup, which is virtual, on call, where yours truly and the worthies here and News Minute's editors will be there. So you can question us. Get us, give us ideas, get what we're doing and have a face to face interaction. And that's only for the joint subscribers.

So yeah, you [00:17:00] can get the joint subscription by clicking on the link in the show notes below, or better still, you can go to the newslorry. com, to our website or the News Minute website, click on the subscribe button and the optional pop up. Get the joint subscription, please. Um, so I just like to start quickly with Kashmir and then move on to Karnataka, North to South.

Uh, and rather there has been, you know, this attack in Jammu and after a very long time, this scale and this nature of attack has, you know, Uh, and at least much of legacy media and even on social media, some former activists and other, you know, political rivals have been telling us how wonderfully calm Kashmir is after article 370, uh, was removed, et cetera.

And this comes as a rude awakening of, of that not entirely being the case. Is this an outlier of a pent up anger, frustration, or Pakistan making the most of this system? [00:18:00] Uh, or. Is this piece we are being sold not there in the first place? 

Anuradha Bhasin: Um, several things here. But to begin with, yes, uh, the thing is that we don't know much about Jammu and Kashmir post 2019.

And maybe, you know, add another year before that, since media kind of started disappearing from the scene. And ever since there's been a complete erasure of what is happening on the ground of Kashmir's population, and by Kashmir, I mean, you know, it's also an abbreviation for Jammu and Kashmir, and, um, so entire of Kashmir.

What is really happening on the ground hasn't been covered in detail. 

Raman: The 

Anuradha Bhasin: ground realities are not being covered. And this is just being papered over by the official narrative. Um, the media has turned into a public relations vehicle of the government and that's for the local media as well as the [00:19:00] national media was always right.

It looked at Uh, Jammu and Kashmir from the lens of ultra nationalism. And that has increased even much more as professional media. And I'm not clubbing, uh, everybody I'm, but I'm talking about the dominant media in India. There is a professional media, which is doing amazing job. And we still hear the few stories that we hear are from, and say, for, for example, instance, News Laundry, News Minute, The Wire, Scroll, you know, the Caravan.

Organizations like these are doing a great job, but they are not part of the dominant media in India. The dominant media is that blaring those 24 7 channels, which will continue to just demonize Uh, the society of Jammu and Kashmir and particularly Kashmiris because of their Muslim majority status. 

Abhinandan: And what about the local media?

How, how is that [00:20:00] coping with this kind of, uh, you know, assault on freedom? Yeah, that's 

Anuradha Bhasin: what, so we really don't know what is happening on the ground. People don't get to hear there is a complete erasure of Kashmir and all you're hearing about is there's a lot of tourism. People are very happy. You have the people told you that.

It's only the government who's telling you that. It's the tourists who come from outside and who are telling you and you're churning these kind of stories or some, you know, the, the, the, the new kind of, um, uh, circle of collaborators that have been created within Jammu and Kashmir and which would happen under any regime.

And they're the only ones. Where are the major voices? Have you heard community voices in any look at reportage on Kashmir? It is. One of the most and has been one of the most volatile places in India in the last 70 years. Today, we don't hear stories about it. So we don't know much [00:21:00] about what is happening.

So once in a while, when there is a flare up, there is a suddenly, you know, everybody will sit up and say, Oh, terror attacks are taking place. What does this mean? And they start You really don't know the basic story and, uh, the way things are that While there is an erasure within Jammu and Kashmir, a complete police state is being created where, um, and, and there's a breakdown of communications, even within Jammu and Kashmir.

Um, the interactions have lessened and I'm talking about at the community level and not just the community level within the community, but also within, uh, you know, between the community and the government, between the community and the police, between the community and the security forces. So those.

Channels of communication have completely broken down because you've created a police [00:22:00] state, a state of fear, a state of surveillance where people cannot speak, where people cannot communicate, cannot articulate what is really happening. So, basically there is ignorance about the ground realities and everybody is ignorant.

I would say, 

Abhinandan: you know, I think we had done a story. Uh, I don't know how long back that was about the local media. They're getting completely eliminated. And we've also seen that from the kind of pitches that come, uh, for earlier journalists used to pitch stories to news laundry. Now they only want to pitch lifestyle stories because lifestyle and features because they don't want to pitch hard news because It's a risk to their safety in Kashmir.

So we've also observed that and I can tell our audience that earlier many freelance journalists used to pitch stories to us from Kashmir. Now, the only stories they pitch are lifestyle stories, you know, something to do with ecology or something to do with some new mirch that is there or some lifestyle.

They don't want to pitch because it's just, too much of a risk for them. So the local journalism has completely dried up there. Is it [00:23:00] safe to say that? 

Raman: We had a regular person who had been writing for us. We used to pitch him stories and he used to pitch stories to us. As Anuradha is saying, it's a state of fear.

So even that person has stopped, uh, you know, communicating with us. In fact, uh, Manisha had also, I think had written once. So we didn't get No one really wants to do stories. 

Manisha: In fact, I've done a really good series, very detailed series till about two years ago, at least. I think it happened two years ago.

The death has been It's been long dead actually, the media scene in Kashmir and we had a very detailed story on the kind of relentless questioning, uh, you can face if you're writing something against the government. Not, forget writing something against the government, if you're, even if you're just detailing what is happening.

Your report can also land you in the sort of trouble that you don't want to land up in. So there's quite a bit of fear among, uh, journalists there. And yeah, now we get stories on, I mean, those also stories, I think, like stories of corruption around Dal Lake or house boats and stuff like that, [00:24:00] but definitely nothing that makes the government look bad, and especially on security forces.

And I 

Raman: am in touch with, uh, you know, some of the reporters, two of them had recently, you know, worked with me. Now they are presenting, you know, different news. organizations in Kashmir. So I have been talking to these guys also. So they tell me that, uh, as soon as the report comes, you have to, you are just being called to show up.

So, so there is huge fear right now. And we are not getting anyone to write us to do a story from the ground. And if we send someone over there, I don't know whether we are going to get 

Manisha: last month, there was this near which again is not border. And Nine persons 

Raman: had died. 

Manisha: Nine people had died and Nirupama had actually done a very good piece for us on how the theater of violence is moving from Kashmir to Jammu.

Jammu. 2023, there were five attacks where about 20 people, 20 army officers, soldiers died. And this is going to be the [00:25:00] biggest security threat or concern for the Modi government in this third term because there's just a spate of attacks in a region which has relatively been quiet. 

Abhinandan: I mean, it will only be a, uh, a point of concern if it's taken up because I think now it has, if the media doesn't say it's happening, it's not happening.

And that's pretty much how the government seems to be taking things. 

Raman: No, if you see today, the means, again, uh, just, uh, you know, echoing, uh, Pankaj's What Anuradha has said, if you see how the Indian Express has reported the other media sources, every account, like Manisha said, they seem to be Pakistani. So it's the military sources telling these people.

So that's the only source left. So they are also speculating that the way the attacks have been done, the way our people, our army. trained army personnel are getting killed. It seems that these people are Pakistani trained, uh, army officers who had [00:26:00] prior experience in fighting, uh, you know, with Afghanistan.

So even that much there, even that 

Abhinandan: kind of sources, the entire 

Raman: narrative is coming from the military. 

Manisha: Sophisticated. 

Abhinandan: So, uh, so and rather, you know, before we let you go, if you could just tell us a little bit about the Supreme Court had said that elections should be held in Kashmir by. September, I think, uh, had a date been given 15th or did they just, but now is it likely that will happen?

And, uh, you know, can you give us an idea of on the ground, will that be an, is that something that could lead to enthusiasm? Is there political activity? Will there be rallies? Will there be speeches up now give us the election? 

Anuradha Bhasin: Uh, I think all of these. 

Abhinandan: Okay. Uh, 

Anuradha Bhasin: EI don't know, you know how to look at the Supreme Court verdict.

Wa was it, uh, it wasn't like a directive. Mm-Hmm. . But, you know, the Supreme Court actually said something like, and I will leave it to the legal expert to dissect [00:27:00] that, but it said something like, uh, that, uh, you know, the government has given us assurance and they will hold elections. They should hold elections by September.

Uh, so is the government duty bound to, uh, hold elections by September? Now looking at, uh, the parliamentary elections which recently happened, um, there, there was a lot of enthusiasm and it gradually kind of built up. And these are People who kind of have been silenced, and it's not just journalists who have been silenced, you know, when journalists go out and try to, A, they cannot do stories because they fear for their own lives and their own safety.

B, they cannot do stories because when they go out to talk to people, Uh, ordinary people. The people are so scared that they don't want to speak. So you really don't have stories. If you go and talk to officers, the officers are either too scared or [00:28:00] arrogant to talk. So you really don't have any versions to actually work with.

Um, so this, so these basically trying to, and what I'm trying to say is this is a population that had been totally silenced and they used that. Election time as an opportunity to speak, uh, to their participation in, uh, in, in, uh, voting through participation in rallies and, you know, the conversations that could be made it, it, it was a freer atmosphere and in that sense, I think people would still participate, but there is still At the same time, there's a whole lot of skepticism, uh, with respect to the assembly elections and the future of the legislative assembly of Jammu and Kashmir, which is no longer the same.

Jammu and Kashmir is no longer a state. 

Raman: It 

Anuradha Bhasin: is, uh, a union territory, which is directly controlled by the [00:29:00] center and recent changes, which gave the governor, uh, more oversight. Uh, over whatever the legislative assembly is deciding, including, you know, transfers and all of that, that will, um, the, the left and governor will have an oversight.

So even if, and which is not likely, even if they were to give statehood to Jammu and Kashmir, that kind of an order will still remain in the background. So it will be a limited state. So it will be a Saxena versus, Saxena versus Kejriwal. Uh, the Modi government, the way they operate, they are not conditioned to negotiating with people or giving them concessions.

I only expect a very, very powerless, symbolic government, uh, which probably may not even have the powers to, uh, decide on municipal issues. [00:30:00] Because often there is intersection of, you know, even when you're talking of development, um, so you have these centrally controlled projects and there is so much of reliance on funding from the center.

I don't think there would be. any autonomy in the hands of, uh, the government. I've 

Abhinandan: always wondered anyone running a business in, uh, Kashmir or Tripura, where internet keeps going, how, how do they file their GST and all that? There's no way to run a company and there is no provision otherwise, but, uh, but, uh, thank you so much for joining us on Radha.

Before we say goodbye, can you just give us a recommendation that could enrich the lives of our listeners and viewers? 

Anuradha Bhasin: Well, uh, if you're talking about Kashmir and you did mention my book, so first of all, I would recommend my own book and, uh, a dismantled state, uh, the untold story of Kashmir after three 70.

Um, and, um, I have it here. Um, 

Abhinandan: this 

Anuradha Bhasin: is, this is like, uh, [00:31:00] I mean, I would say recommend reading it. This covers mostly to 2019 to 2021, but this is a counter narrative to what the government is telling you. And it's important to read probably, you know, there is need to do more sequels of this, but that's about Kashmir.

But another book that I was reading is, um, P Sainath, the last heroes, uh, foot soldiers of Indian freedom struggle. And, and I think that's a brilliant book and we should read about, um, these stories of people who have not been celebrated, but people who made important contributions, um, in shaping India. Um, and, um, yeah, so that's, Thank you so much.

That's my reading list. 

Abhinandan: Thank you. Thanks a lot. Hopefully whenever you're around Delhi, do pop into our studio and we can host you here. 

Anuradha Bhasin: Of course. 

Abhinandan: All right. 

Anuradha Bhasin: Thank you. Pleasure talking. [00:32:00] Bye 

Abhinandan: bye. Right. Now moving further down South until we have that South podcast, which also we should actually launch when the 500th episode of Hafta happens.

Yeah, that could be the launchpad. That'll be great. That could be the episode one off. By the way, many, Suggested names have come in for the south only hafta version. We haven't decided on any yet, but if you have any other suggestions of names that have a local flavor, please write to podcasts at newslaundry.

com with the suggestion of what we should call this new podcast, which will be hosted on news minutes, which will be a south version of hafta and hopefully by maybe the 500th episode four weeks from now, we can start that. So Anisha, um, like we started by saying that Much excitement in Karnataka and many headlines, one involving the Kaveri water disputes, uh, one involving this 

Manisha: chief minister 

Abhinandan: and one involving this private reservation, which in fact, today Indian Express has an editorial on how it's a terrible decision politically.[00:33:00] 

Economically and even from the point of view of job creation, they 

Manisha: just get stuck in the court because Haryana, Andhra Pradesh, uh, tried the same thing, but they didn't get the green light from the court got stuck. So you cannot pass it anyway because it'll get stuck at the court. 

Abhinandan: So let's start with this, the Cauvery water issue.

I mean, It's a bit of an inconvenient one because, you know, as long as Tamil Nadu, if it had a NDA favoring government, then it would be convenient for Congress and Tamil Nadu to, you know, play against each other. But now these are allies to appeal to your local population, local electorate. You know, creating this entire issue is not wise, I guess, in the long run for either party.

Unlike Delhi, which actually can completely get parched if it doesn't get water that is released from upstream. How much of, uh, either state really depends on this [00:34:00] water? I mean, is it, is it so significant or is it more a political posturing thing for your local audience? 

Anisha Sheth: Um, it's a bit of both actually, because, uh, like say for example, Most of, uh, the, uh, water that is being used by, uh, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, by the way, some water of like very tiny amounts also go to Kerala and Puducherry.

Uh, but, uh, the bulk of the water goes to the largest portion goes to Tamil Nadu followed by Karnataka, then Kerala, and then Pondicherry. But the most of the water that is shared, uh, as part of the award, uh, by the Supreme Court, uh, you know, for the dispute is used for agriculture. And agriculture in, uh, parts of, uh, Karnataka, specifically Southern Karnataka, what we call the Old Mysore region and the Delta districts of, uh, Tamil Nadu.

And this is one part of it, but a lot of Bangalore's water supply, [00:35:00] drinking water supply also comes from the Cauvery. So Bangalore would actually kind of be parched. Many areas at least, uh, if that water supply did not come through, uh, that's one thing, but with regard to political posturing also. So this thing about, uh, this so called conflict between Canada speakers and Tamil speakers, and therefore Karnataka and Tamil Nadu is kind of old, but also slightly new because over a period of time, uh, Tamil speakers have been projected as outsiders.

But that's not actually the case. You know, Bangalore's always had a Tamil speaking population for a good 300, 400 years. 

Abhinandan: Your CEO is Tamil and a Bangalorean, Vignesh Vellore. 

Anisha Sheth: Yes. Uh, yes. And, uh, I'm also a recent Tamil convert in the sense that, you know, like I lived in Chennai for, you know, two and a half years, and I just came back [00:36:00] loving the place.

So, yeah, I mean like, yeah, a lot of people in our language, in our office are multilingual and we speak like, you know, all the languages and, you know, you, so, yeah. Go to any of the southern states for five days and you'll start understanding what they're saying, even if you can't speak back, but, uh, you know, because in the 1980s onwards, things started taking a turn for towards a kind of linguistic polarization and, uh, that only got solidified in the last 10, 20 years and no you know, in any either Tamil Nadu or Kerala has ever been able to take a, uh, openly cooperative stand.

Uh, like for example, uh, you know, even though they quietly do under the table, Without making noise about it. Do they, they do share water and, uh, it's happened in BSL past time. It's happened more recently also. Uh, so they just don't talk about it. They will quietly do things, uh, you know, behind the scenes and ensure that, you [00:37:00] know, both states do have enough water, but publicly, nobody can ever make an argument in favor of cooperation.

And there is actually a case to be made for cooperation. Uh, because, uh, The river is horribly polluted, like very badly polluted both in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. That way also, you know, uh, both states have done a really good job of like completely trashing the river with garbage and industrial pollutants and so on.

And, uh, climate change is also making things pretty bad and deforestation and all these things. Uh, that is one thing. And also agricultural patterns, I think in both states need to be changed. Over a period of time, both areas where the Cauvery water is supplied have shifted to cash crops and paddy, which is grown massively all over Tamil Nadu is also a water guzzling crop.

So the same thing that's happening, I think [00:38:00] need to seriously look into the question of ready. Seeing what a usage completely, or at least as much as possible. I think that's a, that's 

Abhinandan: a problem in 

Anisha Sheth: both states to try 

Abhinandan: it. 

Anisha Sheth: Yeah, that's 

Abhinandan: a problem even in Punjab and Haryana. I mean, there, at least the staple is rice here.

The staple isn't rice. Even then everyone moved to that. And that is also, it leads to the. But, uh, you know, talking of polluted rivers, et cetera, I don't know whether you guys saw the mayor of Paris 

Manisha: jumping into the river, you know, 

Abhinandan: to prove that they've cleaned it up. But now with the Olympics, well, it's just, it's just because, you know, French.

You can pronounce that, I hope some politician will jump in. Y so jump in. I mean, I would like to see Stalin and, uh, uh, dear Mr. Uh, chief Minister

jumping in together in the ti uh, into the,

Manisha: the BGP [00:39:00] spokesperson in one of the debates in a live debate that they do want the guards to go and take a dip in the ganga. So he refused. 

Abhinandan: No, that would be fantastic if, if that were possible. But what I think was very interesting, you know, what Anisha said is that, Even though there would be arrangements privately, the public posturing has to be that we will not give you, I mean, I find that fascinating.

And I just happened to be speaking to a French journalist the day before yesterday. And, uh, they were telling me that, you know, I was like, what's happening in your country? Because after the first round of polling or the first stage of phase, whatever they call it, it seemed like the right wing Le Pen, how do you pronounce her name?

Le 

Manisha: Pen, Marie Le Pen. 

Abhinandan: So that's a simple pronunciation. So, you know, it seemed like her party would sweep then after Macron and that the left liberals decided to come together, then, you know, they won. But now they aren't being able to agree on a primarily. Left block hate each other. So they said, so So they haven't been able to find one yet.

Just because in our [00:40:00] country, the politics is not like in Germany, that you know, they will get together, even opposite party will get together and make sure governance happens. In ours, they will tear the country down, but they will not agree to stuff. So I'm like, that's a bit like us. They said, no, ours is worse than yours.

I was like, really? I don't know enough about French politics. But, uh, if that is the case in publicly, they cannot be seen to agree with this 

Raman: problem exists. Uh, you know, since 19th century, I think the first time, uh, something on this was done in 1892. 

Abhinandan: On what? 

Manisha: On Kaveri. In fact, we should read our two part.

Yeah. Very legendary story. That should be, uh. Which is just beautifully. RA 

Raman: should, uh, flag. 

Abhinandan: We'll repost it. But that's like 20, 000 words. But, uh, uh, you know, before I just want to also move on to this bill that they are walking back on, on the reservation bill, the Cauvery issue, it only comes up now when the monsoon is around.

I mean, would, would this not be the time when? things are sorted and there is no [00:41:00] water, water shortage? Or is it just because they haven't gone by the Supreme Court's verdict of supplying as much water as they should have? 

Anisha Sheth: No, I think they've just reduced the, as you mentioned earlier, they've just reduced the quantum of water being supplied, saying it's for drinking water and so on.

We can't do more. Uh, but monsoon so far have been kind of okay. So there is a voice should be full right now. So it's a little strange as to why this is cropping up now, every time there is a shortage of, uh, rains or whatever, like, and it's, it's consecutively happened for the last few years. So it is a problem that keeps cropping up every time, uh, you know, the Muslims aren't good enough.

Abhinandan: Oh, is it a deflection like Manisha suggesting because of this whole reservation and his own personal issues of corruption that have been alleged? I 

Manisha: think it's because of maybe the corruption allegations against him. You've seen him do two populist moves. One is this Kannadiga's jobs for Kannadigas and the other is this Kaveri emotive issue.

So maybe it's also just to kind of deflect [00:42:00] attention and 

Anisha Sheth: not. Um, I think in may or something, they started with this signboard thing where, you know, see percent of the text on your, uh, signboard. So it was supposed to be Canada. These random things keep popping up every now and then the signboard is a huge thing.

And part of that is rooted in, uh, The visible affluent Hindi speaking migrants for here down South. Anybody who doesn't speak Malayalam is a Hindi speaker, regardless of what they actually speak. So this is the, you know, a lot of it is directed at, you know, by it migrants and you know, who are all these Hindi speaking people who are all over the place and so on.

And, uh, yeah, so that is rooted in that. So these kind, And, uh, making Kannada popular by force. It keeps happening over the years. It has happened over the [00:43:00] years all the time. Part of that is rooted in one slightly, uh, anti ID crowd type of Hindi speaking, like perceived Hindi speaking crowd migration. And part of it is in one, uh, slightly anti Tamil sentiment also.

So it's not, uh, uh, the, the job scene just came right out of the blue, but that could probably be a diversionary tactic. It's, it's an, it's entirely possible. 

Abhinandan: But, uh, you know, um, I'm just wondering the panels, you and I'd also like to know Anisha's you, cause we have discussed this in the context of the Marathi signboards.

And, uh, I mean, I completely endorse that. 

Manisha: We had done a detailed discussion. We did a little discussion on that, but that was 

Abhinandan: not, Was it Karnataka or was it, we discussed that also, because, I mean, because I, I remember initially being against it when I, in the 90s when I was in Bombay and I was, and then, you know, later as I spoke to people, it's a very alien feeling to, not everybody is multilingual, you know, people who are privileged like us.

A Marathi speaker who only knows Marathi [00:44:00] walks down Carter Road and cannot even understand one shop, what this shop sells, because everything is English. Uh, and I think that can really alienate a society and it can cause local people feeling, you know, distant or displaced, out of place from like, for example, even, you know, in Gurgaon.

And I gave the same example last time that you go to a rickshawwala in Gurgaon and say, I want to go to Malibu. Thank you. 

Manisha: Beverly 

Abhinandan: Hills, Beverly, like he says, where? You know, if you say Himanshu Tower, he will know. If you say Sarvodaya Enclave, where our office is, you know. So, I, I think there is some merit to there being a sense of the local should understand where the fuck he's working here, you know, what this shop sells.

Now, It, it also happens to be a populist move, you know, often the politics behind it can put you off, but I don't necessarily disagree with the logic of it. What do you think, Anisha? I 

Anisha Sheth: think I would partly agree, but the thing is that this demand is being made [00:45:00] by groups with a kind of belligerence saying, no, put Kannada.

Why? Because this is. Karnataka. That is the logic they're giving you. Not that, you know, everybody should be able to understand or read or everybody has a right to be informed of something, right? That is not where this is coming from. Okay. So now if you're going to make that argument, then I would say that, you know, okay, yeah, sure.

You know, we should have the railways department website in multiple languages. Everybody uses that website across the country. Why is it only in English and, uh, Hindi? 

Raman: Hmm. You know, 

Anisha Sheth: there is a case for the art, uh, to happen across multiple languages. And let's not also forget that every state, like for example, the People's Linguistic Survey of India, which was, uh, done by, uh, uh, that NGO, uh, headed by Gian Devy, the, uh, the linguist.

So you find that you are basically, they went around asking people, what, what do you call, what is the name of your mother tongue? They came across 780 plus answers. [00:46:00] That's how many languages people speak in the subcontinent. Mm-Hmm. . Now, they've not classified it linguistically whether this is a proper, proper language or whether it's a dialect or whatever, but that is how people define their languages, their mother tongues.

Now, you cannot go on and say that, uh, Karnataka is the only language that's going to be given. Uh. Importance here, right? To the exclusion of all other languages. Like, like the place, uh, the where I come from, coastal Karica. People speak five languages. Yeah. The name of the town, Manor. Uh, different languages have different names for it.

Raman: Mm-Hmm. , 

Anisha Sheth: uh, and, uh, nobody there used to speak Canada. Even today you will find villages where people don't speak Canada. They speak to Lu. I, I guess they, or maybe they speak Barry or the, maybe they speak company. 

Abhinandan: Absolutely. If you can, you know, it can go down to that granular level, just like, you know, tribes, loyalty in many states in the Northeast, but India has 22 official languages.

I think in race, day and age, it is not difficult to make a [00:47:00] website. You can choose whether you want to read it in English or Hindi. There's so many websites you can choose what language you want to read it in like French newspapers. You can do a French version. You can do an English version. You can do that too.

I think several language websites even here. So I don't think the government has. So I think that is a perfectly reasonable expectation to have. If not the 700 and whatever language, but at least the 22 official languages as recognized, you know, by the Indian constitution. So I don't think that's an unreasonable demand, but yes, I, I get the belligerence.

It comes from. But the one thing that is pleasantly, it's, it's both pleasant and unpleasant, uh, surprising to me is that till a decade ago, the whole accusation used to be, now these consider every, every on Madrasi, you know, Tamilian, uh, uh, Madrasi. Now the same thing is happening. They're in these speakers.

But 

Manisha: that's been there for a long time. [00:48:00] It just hasn't been called out. And now it's, 

Abhinandan: it's, it's time for us to outrage. No, whichever. See. Whichever state you go to. 

Anisha Sheth: No, no. We just call them Hindi speakers. We don't have any derogatory sentiment attached to it. Madras is derogatory. No, no. So North Indians are still in the wrong.

Raman: No, I said, uh, I mean, if you go to any state, you are an outsider within. I, uh, that's the story in each state. Uh, so, so the outsiders, the moment they started making money in those areas. So the locals, the natives, they feel that they are, they are being exploited. They don't get jobs at all. It's 

Manisha: a world over 

Raman: story.

And the politicians make it a political tool. This is where the problem lies. But it's Language is for communication. So if, if, say, in Marathi, there are, I've seen Marathi signboards. I've seen Telugu. I've been to Hyderabad. So I've seen Telugu signboards also. [00:49:00] So, so I think it's not a big deal. So long as you don't make it, uh, you know, a story of the outsider within.

Abhinandan: Now, a related point being the reservations. Now, uh, Siddharth Ramaiah is walking back on this because also it is highly likely the court will not uphold this order of his. Is there any commentary in local media? I know at least the national dailies have. Called this out as a very, as a big mistake and a problematic move.

But was this a political consolidation of his, you know, mother tongue, Kannadiga's, I'm your guy. Has it had the desired effect or is it egg on his face now he's walking back and all sorts of, you know, wiggle room is being provided by Spokies and himself to say, okay, we'll reconsider this. Has it backfired?

What was the purpose of this? 

Anisha Sheth: Purpose of this, he alone can answer. I alone himself can [00:50:00] answer. But, uh, yeah, there is the, see, the effect of it is that for, for a bit, it has taken some, uh, you know, attention away from the Muda land scam and so on and so on. But, uh, this is not the first time that, uh, this kind of, um, Um, domicile based reservation.

I was being proposed. 

Raman: It 

Anisha Sheth: happened, I think, um, 20, yeah, around 20, 20, 30 years ago also. So every now and then this thing keeps coming up. So it's, this is not the first time that this has happened. Um, secondly, um, So what was the other part of the question that you asked? 

Abhinandan: Has whatever it was desired effect was, has it had the desired effect?

Is there a consolidation of his whatever linguistic mode? Is there a positive? Has it made him a hero? 

Anisha Sheth: He has not generally been known to be like, you know, this whole, uh, pro Kannada thing or whatever has. He's never banked on it that [00:51:00] much. Uh, like other politicians and so on. His political background has been his movement of what we call here in Karnataka abbreviated to a Hinda, which is, uh, uh, minorities, uh, backward classes and Dalits.

And he's, you know, this entire Canada agitation and so on has not been part of his Politics, uh, that much. Uh, but as for, uh, with regard to what has happened, the desired effect depends on what the intention of launching this thing was. Now, the one thing that is for certain is that even if the IT industry makes a small whimper of noise, any government in power will just cave in.

Uh, there is no government has actually ever taken them on seriously. The IT industry has had exemptions from a lot of labor laws also. So there's nobody is going to seriously take them [00:52:00] on, uh, and, uh, you know, it's too big a revenue generator. 

Abhinandan: Is that it? It generates too much revenue for the state. That's the main reason.

Anisha Sheth: That's a stated claim. 

Abhinandan: Okay. Okay. 

Anisha Sheth: Everything is generating revenue. All economic activity will generate some revenue or the other, right? Now, in fact, like this is something that we are working on right now to try and talk to activists to evaluate these claims, uh, rather, sorry, to talk to activists also, but also to economists to evaluate the claims that the IT industry is making.

Now they say that, you know, okay, it is true that a huge chunk of your GDP does come from. Uh, you know, the IT related IT industry and so on. That is definitely true. But how important is it for your economy? Uh, if you're looking at, let's say, economic, uh, theories and positions of the, of the left or right and, you know, neoliberal economics or welfare state or whatever it is, then there can be an argument made that, uh, Uh, industry [00:53:00] is, uh, like the IT industry don't actually create that many jobs.

If you look at the bulk of your workforce, it's in the informal sector. So I would like to ask economists these questions and, you know, see like, you know, how much, uh, truth there is in the claims of the IT industry. Why does the IT industry enjoy so much cloud over the government? Right. That, you know, the moment that, you know, the, the IT industry says something, every woman government starts.

Abhinandan: So, uh, I mean, speaking of today, the Sensex touched a new high led by TCS rally. So it's, it's touched. What are the numbers? Sensex hits fresh record highs. Uh, what? Fresh peak of 81, 522. I'm guessing that's what the number is. So nifty and the end in green. And it is led by a, uh, uh, tech company. So More than I think the overall economy, it's the markets [00:54:00] that politicians tend to pander to, which actually impacts a very, very small minority of India's, uh, more privileged economically privileged.

But right. So thank you so much for all that. Uh, you have stayed with us for the past five Anisha. Thank you. I know you're busy, so we shall let you go, but not before 

Anisha Sheth: having me. 

Abhinandan: Pleasure. Well, you have to remember you'll have, you'll be doing this weekly eight weeks from now and you have to give us a recommendation because we are going to be starting.

Uh, South equivalent of hafta and that. So, yeah, please get used to actually 

Manisha: before she, I mean, of course, uh, I'm sure you'll recommend your piece on this whole set that am I as a quote unquote scam, but maybe you can just tell our audience a little bit about the seriousness of these allegations against him.

Is it really a scam? Is it not? Are there irregularities, 

Anisha Sheth: see whether or not it's a scam, uh, only a proper investigation can reveal, right? But there is enough in what has happened. If you look at, uh, you know, the trail of documents and sit down with [00:55:00] what happened when it happened and compare it with who was in power at the time, this is too many coincidences.

One, and it has happened over such a long period of time. The whole thing is rather strange. Uh, why was the land denotified in the first place? Usually with regard to denotification of land, you know, somebody will go and say, okay, this is if I'm, if my land has been acquired, I'll go to the government or whoever, you know, the local authority and say, don't acquire my land for X, X purpose.

I need it for this purpose and so don't acquire it. Now, if you look at the layout of where this, um, Urban Development Authority developed that residential layout. This land is right bang in the center of it and everything has come up around it, right? Did this farmer who originally owned the land, did he make a representation to the government asking for the land to be dropped from denotification?

If yes, why was it granted when nobody else's [00:56:00] representation may have been granted? We don't know, uh, answers to many of these questions. Even after denotification, Why did the Urban Development Authority go ahead and develop the land? What kind of sense does it make? By docu, you know, your documentary trail or whatever is supposed to communicate one decision to a hundred different people, relevant people.

Was it not communicated to Muda? Or did Muda go ahead and, you know, deliberately Ignore 

Abhinandan: it. 

Anisha Sheth: Right. And then why did Siddharma's brother in law wait six years to buy that land after denotification? But by the time he bought the land, Muna had already developed it and sold parts of it to people. So are you claiming that you were unaware that this land was being developed?

If the, you know, if somebody has already gone and developed the land, it's been sold by the local authority to somebody. Already. Why the hell would you go and buy it? I mean, it, it, it's rather strange, right? It raises a lot of questions that need, need answers to, [00:57:00] and, uh, the government must answer them. You know, the commission, uh, the one man, uh, commission, the bureaucrats were investing, investigating this entire thing, uh, need to look into all of these allegations.

And the scope of this is rather huge. Uh, this kind of instance where Muda has gone and developed land without properly acquiring it. Or, you know, has happened in other instances too. So all of those claims must also be investigated. Is this like a, you know, con game that people have worked out saying that, okay, you don't acquire the land properly.

You go ahead and develop it. And then I will come some years later and. Let's take a claim to 

Raman: this. 

Anisha Sheth: So there are multiple instances of this happening and you know, activists in my sort of been pointing it out for quite some time now. And the commission must investigate all of this to see, you know, whether there was genuine lapses or whether it was by design and deliberate, uh, [00:58:00] intention that, you know, things worked out this way, whether it's for the chief minister or 

Raman: everybody else.

In most cases, the government acquires land, uh, only for the public purpose. I mean, in this particular case, I mean, if they, they, they acquired the land, they develop it and they notify it as a residential, commercial or industrial. So I don't know how. So 

Anisha Sheth: this is, uh, yeah, so these are urban development authorities and they are supposed to do this.

They're supposed to acquire land, create housing, residential layouts, and then Uh, distribute sites to people based on applications. Uh, so it is technically public purpose, but yeah, what is not public purpose is when they acquire land for private industries. That is not public purpose, 

Abhinandan: right? So you can read, um, if not all the answers, at least the questions, uh, on, uh, the piece that, uh, Anisha is writing, uh, the link is in the show notes below.

Other than that, any recommendation [00:59:00] before you say goodbye? 

Anisha Sheth: Yeah, I kind of forgot about it. So I'll just tell you what I'm reading right now. It's a book called, uh, loneliness and the city by this author called Olivia Lang. Uh, it's a very interesting book where she explores people living in large cities, loneliness, uh, through artists, uh, six, Five or six artists who were living in New York.

One of them includes Andy Warhol. It's very interesting because she goes into psychology, psychiatry, uh, experiments done on, uh, you know, there was one bit of where this American psychologist or somebody, I forget his name, did isolation experiments on monkeys, you know, baby monkeys to prove a case for How physical touch and affection, attention are all important for emotional development and so on.

It's a crazily well researched book and it's rather beautiful. Somewhat, uh, depressing [01:00:00] also, but yeah, I was about to say some sounds 

Abhinandan: a bit depressing, but all right. Some of that too. I'm sure one of our other panelists will give us a comic recommendation, but thanks so much. Uh, thank you for having me. All right, Anisha.

Have a good 

Raman: one. So, there's just one news is in, uh, about NEET, Supreme Court has ordered NTA to declare centerwise result by 5 p. m. tomorrow. 

Manisha: Oh, wow. 

Abhinandan: And have they said that it's not possible to do technically? 

Manisha: We don't have the 

Abhinandan: software. They don't have the software to start. 

Raman: That NTA will say tomorrow.

Abhinandan: Right. Okay. Now, uh, before we move on to the emails, just want to discuss something that we touched on initially for a little bit. It's just this whole Kawar Yatra. It's not at least in Delhi, you know, by the mid July, by this time, they've already started cordoning of certain roads and the tambus have started getting put.

Is it delayed somewhat or have they created a bypass from Delhi? Do you know? 

Manisha: I don't know if it [01:01:00] started officially. Has it started? No. It's going to start 

Raman: now. Supposed to start on July 29th and officially it needs to be over on August 4th, but you will see 15 July onwards and till, uh, even beyond 15th August, you are going to see all these roads blocked.

Abhinandan: Yeah, because Independence Day weekend, cause I often go to Dehradun on Independence Day weekend. It's packed at that time. So. Absolutely. But usually it starts getting, you know, kind of active now only, but there's no activity now, right now. No, 

Raman: no. I saw at least three cowards. And if you, if you go on the highway, even if there are 10 cowards, they will block the entire road.

Abhinandan: It's a flex. It's a flex. Yes. In fact, like I was saying, I think we discussed in the last year before last when I was coming back, they were taking one right through Deoband, uh, with that whole, that, that VHP song, which is this trans type. I think we played it also. It's a Bajrangbal song. Bajrangbal song.

Correct. Correct. So, [01:02:00] um, okay. So it hasn't started. So they 

Raman: have started. I saw, uh, I mean, imagine I saw them on Barapulla today, now Barapulla, it doesn't make sense at all. Why do you come on Barapulla? They have taken Barapulla, they were just walking on Barapulla, Barapulla 

Abhinandan: is 

Raman: so crowded. 

Abhinandan: I'm hoping this time there won't be any ugly scenes like they have every year.

Well, we can only hope. No, 

Raman: they, the government has made the passage for them. They have cut or they have asked the permission to cut 30, 000 trees to make way for the farmers. No, they have 

Abhinandan: been granted permission, not just asked, but they have been granted. I don't 

Raman: remember. Okay. So, so I mean, this is it.

Abhinandan: Right. So before we move on to the emails. And we only entertain the emails of subscribers. Your criticism, your critique, your suggestions, your advice. Your appreciation is welcome. We do not read non subscriber emails. Uh, so might I suggest you take a [01:03:00] News Laundry News Minute joint subscription, because that gives you access to not just News Laundry's behind the paywall content, but also of News Minute.

And they're also doing some fantastic stuff, which they've also started putting behind the paywall. And the whole idea is that make this collaboration so solid that we can cover between them and us, we can cover. All of India and you can have actually a national news kind of source, which is completely ad free.

Imagine, I mean, just think about it, right? 20 years ago, you could not have believed that was possible. But now that it is within that distance, we have noticed post election, there's been a huge dip in subscriptions. I understand many of you are fatigued about politics over election over enough. I don't want to see any more of this, but The journalists still have to continue to do stuff.

Everyone still has to keep getting paid. So please, I urge you to tell your friends, relatives, etc, etc, to do subscribe and don't just abandon new subscriptions once election is over. Please do continue to support us. [01:04:00] Now, um, if you want to write to us, write to us at podcasts at newslearning. com. I repeat, podcasts at newslearning.

com. In the subject line, please write. And please keep it below 150 words because otherwise it becomes too long. And, you know, I'd like to include as many as possible, right? So Manisha, please. Okay. 

Manisha: So Babulal, these are letters from last week. We'd save some because they were addressing you and one to Anand, which maybe we can save till when he's back.

Raman: Right. 

Manisha: Uh, Babulal says regarding episode 488, I end up agreeing with most of Abhinandan's rants, but this one about Babus and their, you know, Jobs was a bit problematic because you're judging the importance of something in someone else's life. The equivalent would be someone asking, why do you ask for contributions for Sena projects when most of you still have two kidneys, entire liver and head full of hair to sell?

Some don't find that important enough to keep. Extreme example. But only 150 words, so sorry, please don't [01:05:00] comment on the poor example and acknowledge the point. 

Abhinandan: I acknowledge the point Babulal, although I think he's made his name Babulal also as a irony of me referring to civil servants as Babus, but, uh, acknowledge what you're saying, but disagree, uh, because the kind of damage that some of these civil servants are capable of doing and do to people's lives are profound, are hugely profound and to actively do that saying that oh I've just got orders from the top when you are an intelligent person and you could do a job elsewhere if you're so smart and I'm guessing you are if you've cleared the UPSC.

So please write in again, use morewords. 150, go for 250. Right to meet Abhinandan Sekhri at gmail. com, we will take it up, but sorry, still disagree. 

Manisha: Sanai Nayak says, Hi T, this letter is mainly concerning Abhinandan's comment on not speaking up about many of the horrors concerning people and therefore reserving comments on atrocities [01:06:00] against animals.

In episode 488, I used to share this perspective, but I have changed my mind about this now and having listened to Abhinandan for a while now, it feels like he might be open to a different perspective. There are two arguments against this perspective. First, it's very. Anthropocentric. And I would also argue that it has led to the destruction of biodiversity that are natural habitats of many species globally.

Secondly, many animals that are pets and livestock also support humans in many different ways. So caring about them is also caring about humanity. What was your thing? What did 

Abhinandan: you say? Good point. Well, Saini has, 

Manisha: but what did you say about animals? 

Abhinandan: Basically, I don't know. We talked about some animal video of some dogs were killed by someone.

I'm not saying it's good to kill dogs, 

Manisha: but I just, 

Abhinandan: it doesn't make my heart bleed when, I'm passing children this high with their mothers under a flyover in Delhi summer or Delhi winter. I was like, it's very difficult for my heart to bleed for a dog when it's become so hardened that you [01:07:00] go for a party at Moria and you will probably pass.

30 beggars along the way who may not make it past winter. So I say, how does your heart bleed for a dog if it doesn't bleed every day there? So, but yeah, I get Saini's point. Quick 

Manisha: feedback. I downloaded the News Laundry app to listen to Hafta after it's back behind the paywall, but it's very buggy. It crashed three, four times in a single episode.

Maybe my phone is old, but not that old. 

Abhinandan: Um, so I've passed that feedback on to our tech team, Saini, and, uh, if they haven't already, they will probably be getting in touch with you and I hope to fix this buggy thing soon. 

Manisha: Manan has written in, says, in the last hafta, Avanandan described Ahmedabad as a boring city.

How dare he tell me my city is boring without living here. If anyone is going to say it, it would be me. No outsider can say it. It's like African American can call each other the N word, but others can't. Jokes apart, fix the podcast player on Android app. There was an update which describes improvement in podcast player, but after that update, it still lags.

I have an LTA suggestion. Please make a [01:08:00] states series with its states, political history, politics. Political history. So basically, for example, I'm from Gujarat. So make a series describing how Gujarat broke away from Mumbai, what political movement made it happen, and what are the reasons, and after that, which parties have come into power.

Basically, political timeline from 1947 to present with major events. One might know politics of their state and their neighbors, but with this podcast series, subscribers can learn about regional politics, all regional politics. Yeah, it's a good idea. 

Abhinandan: Really good idea. There was another subscriber who had come up with a similar idea and had actually written a very detailed, uh, proposal and also said I will raise the Sena project from his friend's subscribers in the U.

S. Uh, and then I, I think, you know, elections came up, COVID happened and then everything went into a tailspin, but, uh, there's a very detailed proposal we have written out. In fact, Parikshit, I'll share that with you after this, so [01:09:00] we should, we should do that. 

Manisha: So Shamona has written, uh, a mail. She said that, uh, uh, regarding the discussion on new criminal laws, BNS, et cetera.

I want to raise a point of order. I was very happy that you invited a seasoned criminal lawyer like Vrinda Grover to speak on the subject. The discussion was really superb and one of your panels pointed out there were so many new things to learn. However, after Vrinda left, you continued the discussion during which Anand expressed his disagreement with her observations on the sedition provision and went on to not only critique what she said, but also make several philosophical points to support his argument.

I feel that this should have been discussed in the panel. Vrinda's presence or not at all, because it left the entire issue in a state of chaos and confusion. Frankly, I listened to the discussion twice over to try and understand the point Anand was making, and now I'm thoroughly confused. 

Abhinandan: This is not right.

Or as Atal ji would say, Actually, what 

Raman: happened, Vrinda had to go, had to leave and, uh, uh, Meghnath, I think, was [01:10:00] the hosting it, so Meghnath could not express himself, so he said he wants to continue, you know, with this topic, and this is when Anand came in, and then Meghnath I see, okay. 

Manisha: So she said that it's supposed to be a friend sitting around a dining table design.

That's what an are supposed to be. I enjoy it very much. It's important to remember that your listeners are spending time and money to listen to you and therefore some basic protocols and also basic preparedness is expected from the panelists. It's not a casual discussion among friends around Ran point, and she had considered sharing this episode with friends and colleagues at the bar as well as activists who would be very interested in what rad to say, but now she's decided against it.

So sorry about this. We will not do it again. I hope you take the letter in the right spirit. I really do appreciate the work you do. I would listen to not just Hafta, Charcha, ANA, Reporters Without Orders. It was nice to hear Meghnath again. He's been sorely missed. So we must pay attention to this. Now new letters from last week.[01:11:00] 

Akash says, I'm a new subscriber, bought annual sub after election coverage. Somebody is buying subscriptions after elections also. 

Abhinandan: Yeah, please. More people be like Akash. Please buy election coverage. All of you who are watching the free hafta, please. Got 

Manisha: introduced to NL through nuisance and Manisha now a fan of Hafta and Charcha.

Mr. Abhinandan and his intro to Hafta but Meghnad filled the space beautifully. Love the explainers of Meghnad. Please have him on shows often. Fan of Raman sir's flow of thought and stories. Shardul your amazing host and your fillers are like the background voice in hip hop concerts. I have a question to future Chief Justice of India Anand.

Okay he's not here so maybe we'll just It's just a question we can save for when Anand is back, he's going to be back after a while. We'll 

Abhinandan: just ask him this question when he comes back. 

Manisha: Karthik Prasad says, is it possible for NL to make a documentary on Neet Scam? Something on the lines of NPR, PBS, BBC, do a one hour documentary.

Yeah, that'd be really neat. 

Abhinandan: Well, Karthik, we, not just this, I don't know whether you saw the documentary made on [01:12:00] Monu Manesar, um, that I think got topped up, the NL Sena, but documentaries take a lot of time, effort and money. So right now, let us just. We 

Raman: have done one town hall, we have done five stories, video stories as well.

Abhinandan: Please share it with your family, ask them to contribute. 

Manisha: Anonymous says he really likes Suhasini Haider's analysis of Russia in last week's Hafta. However, I think Think it should have been placed in the context of the new Cold War between us and China. India is a key nation for the US to counter the dominance of China, but India is still playing both sides.

On the one hand, India's increasing ties with other bricks countries like Iran and Russia, which are considered enemies of the West. On the other hand, it is still considered a Western ally. Should India be taking a firm stance of alignment now should it be aligning itself with the West? Who I think are extremely opportunistic and unreliable.

Is it worth antagonizing a powerful neighbor like China? Do I believe our border disputes with China can be solved diplomatically? [01:13:00] Would this reconciliation be opposed by the West by threat of capital flight or the presence of large Indian diaspora in the West? Keep up the good work. 

Abhinandan: Well, I have a view on two of the issues.

One is I think that. Uh, now we can no longer talk about the West as a one block. I mean, I think India's relation with France has been very cozy. Yeah. Too cozy in my view. Uh, where they even told the line of not, you know, getting. The press to do its job. The fact that the French delegation or the French authorities, it makes no difference even when their own nationals are sent back to France from India.

You know, they don't protest to anything. Uh, U. S. is the key here. As far as U. S. is concerned, yeah, I think it's okay to play both sides. It's always been so 

Manisha: anyway. Like, non alignment has always been But 

Abhinandan: playing both sides, you have [01:14:00] to do it smartly. I'm not saying that, I'm not sure they're doing it smartly.

I think we appear very churlish when we make a shindy of something the New York Times wrote, and then the external affairs minister refers to it in the press conference. I just think that, Playing both sides is done by a, it has to be done like a self confident Don, not like someone No, that's not how it's done.

Raman: No, it may be, um, politically it may, may sound like that because of his demeanor, our Prime Minister's demeanor, but I think MEA backs it up, uh, very, uh, diplomatically, very nicely. And I think in the end, the national interest of the country Dominates international relations. So I'm not sure. So I mean, 

Abhinandan: for example, buying cheap fuel from Russia, has it benefited you and me?

Buying cheap fuel from Russia. It led to windfall for petroleum companies. Anant ki doomdam se. Was the benefit passed on to you and me? No, it hasn't. I don't think it's got to do with what is a national interest. I mean, if they want [01:15:00] Adani to get a pot of Mukesh bhai's refineries to get cheap oil, I mean, Unfortunately, in the eyes of many in the media, and I think justifiably so, even foreign relations are seen as what will benefit Mr.

Modi's cronies. 

Raman: And if 

Abhinandan: that is how foreign policy is being decided, and I think to a great extent that is how it's being decided. I mean, whether you're playing one side or two sides, who gives a shit if it's not benefiting me? 

Raman: No, I think at the domestic level, you can Talk about it. But when it comes to international relations, buying cheap oil was, uh, I mean, beneficial for the, for the country, not, not for us.

Right? Because if you buy it from somewhere else is going to be expensive and then they will do pass on that expenses to us. So, so I think national, I think they have more or less played fine. 

Manisha: Yeah, we saved roughly 2. 7 billion dollars by importing discounted Russian oil in the first nine months of 2023.

So yeah, but 

Abhinandan: yeah, but I don't think we have to, [01:16:00] you know, go by U. S. interests. Also, 

Manisha: wouldn't it have impacted inflation, like inflation, the way it skyrocketed in Europe after the war? I mean, I think we don't know because 

Abhinandan: no data is credible because if you were to go by a tomato prices, uh, food inflation is at an all time high in India right now.

Raman: Like today, I think in Supreme Court it came up, uh, when the need was discussed, they, I mean, somebody has disputed, uh, you know, IIT Madras contention that there's nothing wrong in it. And who has contested it on, on paper, on, I mean, the on record IIT Delhi has. Okay. Now IIT Delhi professors, they are saying they have given an affidavit to the Supreme Court and they are saying that this is an issue which the Indian Statistical Institute should contest, not IIT Madras.

But 

Manisha: that is correct. 

Raman: That is the, that is the job of Indian Statistical Institute. Even I was 

Manisha: wondering that IIT Madras. This is [01:17:00] exactly a statistical exercise talking 

Raman: about data. So data, Indian Statistical Institute, they are the ones who are handled. We don't hear often hear from them. 

Manisha: Norman Khan says in a land where priorities bloom like dollar signs and logic.

Takes a backseat ride on a luxury yacht. The Ambani wedding cost graph takes center stage with a bill totaling around 5, 000 

Abhinandan: crores. By the way, where has that number? I've seen many people share that number. 5, 000. 5, 000. Wait. 1 

Manisha: percent of his wealth. I don't know. Who's done the calculation? 0 point 

Abhinandan: something.

Who's done the calculation of it? I mean, I don't know. 

Raman: It's all there on the Instagram. 

Abhinandan: So 5, 

Raman: 000, so somebody has interpreted it that he spent 5, 000 crore, which comes to about 0. 65 or something. No, but how have they come 

Abhinandan: up with that number of 5, 000 crore? With a 

Raman: bill totaling around 

Manisha: 5, 000 crore, it's an event.

To rival the GDP of small nations and a fare so grand it makes fairytale blush with inadequacy. Compare this to Kerala's education budget, a modest thousand [01:18:00] crore. Apparently education, educating millions is less important than a weekend of opulence. Virat Kohli's entire network stands at a mere 900 crore, making him look like a popper at the gates of Ambani's palace.

Then there's the daily cup of Starbucks for 10, 000 years, costing a trifling 700 crore. Finally, Tamil Nadu's breakfast scheme feeding countless children runs at 600 crore. Less than the price of a solid gold turban. Okay, we got your point. Everything is way more Yet. Here comes the Indian middle class liberals, armed with their keyboards and an indomitable spirit of defense, proclaiming the Ambani wedding as a joyous occasion for India.

How dare anyone spread negativity with the nation, when the nation is busy grinding itself for basic amenity? Actually, you know, I would really like to know what regular, because see, look, Instagram, it's fun. I mean, I don't think people think it's a joyous occasion, but it's why gossip sells. You know, kisne It's just, it's fun.

Instagram content with people like watching, [01:19:00] but I'd like to know, especially after elections and the political rhetoric around Ambani Adani or Ameeron ki hain and genuine rural distress, I'm really keen to know what actually regular folks thought of this expenditure. Like, do people Did people like think it's too much or did they think it's fine?

Because I also feel like Indians somewhere don't grudge the rich too much. 

Abhinandan: I mean, I think they do, but they just don't have the confidence to articulate it. I think if given half a chance, the Indian underprivileged are petrified. They live in just the body language. I mean, especially you were on a two or three week holiday in Europe, as was I.

The first thing. You notice when you come back to India is anyone who is in economic status lower than you, you know, the way they deal with you, it's, it's so different from someone, how a waiter talks to you in Europe and how a waiter, and not just you because you're brown, you know, how [01:20:00] he talks to everybody, the Indian underprivileged live in mortal fear.

Go by this Pune case here. The boy's out on bail. I think his father also got bail or grandfather or mother, whoever, they could not find her. You can mow people down. You can, and every other day there was another video that came off an SUV, which is driven by the son of someone from Sharad Pawar's party yesterday.

And what you're saying is, sure, it's gossip and all, but what really pisses me off is that on Instagram, I follow Hindustan Times, NDTV Times, all these are people who are going to tell me news. 

Raman: Yeah. 

Abhinandan: For, Probably 15 days. You just go on Instagram. If I wanted that information, I'd be following Kim Kardashian.

I'd be following 

Manisha: Rakhi Sawant. I'd be following 

Abhinandan: Dolly or Bollywood Times, but I'm following serious news platforms. And you scroll all you saw each one of these pathetic, so called news, serious news platforms. See what he is wearing. See how [01:21:00] he's dancing. See how Ranveer sets it on fire. And also how they behave.

I mean, even putting some background music of, Oh, how beautiful you're looking and walking. I'm like, dude, my God, aren't you guys embarrassed? I mean, it's so pathetic. 

Raman: Isn't Mukesh Bhai embarrassed? Dude. Yeah. I mean, Oh, 

Abhinandan: dear God. It was that whole, that Bollywood. I was like, is there anyone telling you how somebody showed me, you know, when that 

Manisha: family man, you're listening to listening to his family and 

Abhinandan: come on, 

Manisha: all Indian uncles do this.

And what I 

Abhinandan: find fascinating is at least the interviews that I have seen and all the information that I know, you know, having spoken to several people when the Uber was alive in Reliance, the one thing that was the big fissure between Anil and And Mukesh [01:22:00] was that Mukesh is said that we have to follow the Dubai's philosophy that you should not be in the headlines with stars and that we do our work no matter we do not show our either allegiance and that's not what we should know because you know if you remember that time Amar Singh, Amitabh Bachchan and Anil Ambani.

In fact, I think Express had done a full page on Amar Akbar Anthony. These guys, they would be everywhere together, partying, and the thing was that this is not the Reliance philosophy. We put our heads down and do our work and now look at him. He's making a bloody spectacle of himself here. But I think the wedding is also 

Manisha: about the arrival of Neeta Ambani as this cultural czar and it coincides with her having that, you know, them having bought the largest entertainment conglomerate.

Abhinandan: And, 

Manisha: I 

Abhinandan: think so. 

Manisha: I think it's a business thing. I don't think anything at that level happens without a money or business consideration. It's not just a joyous, [01:23:00] happy occasion. No, 

Abhinandan: no, it may not be, but what I'm saying is it goes against what their stated philosophy was of. How you should be perceived out there by people.

Manisha: Like Rihanna, after she came for the concert, she launched her brand with Tira owned by Isha Ambani. Similarly, I'm sure, I'm sure Kim Kardashian also, there'll be some business deal that'll happen with her brand. Maybe he'll come to India via Tira or via the Ambani vehicles. So I'm sure it's going to be like.

Abhinandan: No, that might be a spin off, but that is not. A significant chunk of their business for them to be a business decision. What I'm saying is they're dealing with Aramco. If you know the Saudi king comes, then I can get it to that may form 50, 60 percent of your, what's the name of that company that they have this thing with the oil company, but, but how much would Cik Kashian or whatever this other, you know, Rihanna's worth it.

I mean, it'd be 1% of their over. Yeah. 

Raman: Yeah. 

Abhinandan: So that's not a business consideration. That could be ha.[01:24:00] 

Manisha: Basically, keeping these, 

Raman: uh, these celebrities under their shadow, even by So I just, I just find 

Abhinandan: it, but I mean, what I find truly pathetic is that the complete uncritical eye with which the media looks at it without any irony, without any self awareness. I mean, I can understand if the You know, you're immediately around you saying, what an idea, but even no one from the media, everyone from Shobha Day to Hindustan Times, oh, lovely, lovely 

Raman: dude, like seriously.

And look at the list of media persons invited and they were also There was a different class, so someone from network 18 wasn't, there was one guy, he wasn't getting much love, so, so Dheer is just busy [01:25:00] taking his picture with some, selfies with everyone. 

Manisha: I think it was like a, I think for journalists it was a status thing that we were invited.

Yeah. We were there. Like, let us be 

Abhinandan: received. It was like when a rich man gets married, all the poor people around him get food distributed. So, the main wedding was held, the guests came, the groomsmen came, Shahrukh and Farrukh left, and now the poor people got food distributed. Basically that's it. And everyone reached.

Manisha: The Reliance Disney deal was big though, huh? 3. 5 billion. 

Abhinandan: Yeah, but that is not based on one Chloe Karda I mean, I can get it. No, no, no, I'm just saying If they call Walt I'm just saying it's positioning, 

Manisha: no? It's like, if you look at all the videos, Neeta Ambani is this person who's sourcing artisans, who's making hand painted stuff, or calling chaatwalas from Banaras.

It's like this I am the holder of culture and art. Kind of a image. 

Abhinandan: I don't think that has any impact on a Disney kind of deal. No, 

Manisha: no. But that's the image. I mean, it's an image makeover thing for her. 

Abhinandan: So on that note, if you have any critique, [01:26:00] commentary, anything, do write into us. And I would like to once again, remind you, please subscribe post election.

Many of you seem to have forgotten about our existence. We still exist. These electricity bills still have to be paid. Salaries still have to be given. We don't suddenly stop working when selections are over. So subscribe, renew that subscription, tell your friends, relatives, etc. And guys, please top up this neat Sena project.

So many of you wrote, we did the series and now you guys aren't paying. So kindly do that. Now let's get the recommendations. Uh, start with I 

Raman: had three recommendations. One, I'm We're going to replug our own story, uh, written by Sumedha. This is the neat Gujarat story, which very clearly point out the kind of, uh, you know, the scam that must have happened.

We have the minuscule, uh, picture of it, you know, of a center or two and that, that reflects, uh, so, so that is, uh, and today it has [01:27:00] reflected in this during the Supreme Court hearing also. The second, uh, is, uh, an article which came out in the express, uh, Beyond the photo with Yal Williams and Euro victory, Spain crosses a race barrier.

Beautiful. I was so much interested to know. I mean, I'm going to read more about Yal. Mm-Hmm. , uh, who I think, uh, had come from, his family had come from the Ecuador, uh, to Spain. 

Abhinandan: Yeah. And they had two, one of the thing was from Ghana, one was from Ecuador, I forget. 

Raman: So, so, so Spain, which is quite 

Abhinandan: considered to be a racist.

In fact. In fact, the. Two countries that have their clubs and fans most often banned are Italy and Spain on racism. Yes. 

Raman: So, so there, so it's a good story. And, uh, this, uh, Indian express, uh, you know, sports editor and my, my colleague in the past, Sandeep G he had written this story. Good, uh, front page anchor and, uh, good story.

Second, uh, after a long [01:28:00] time, I, uh, you know, Chidanand Raj Ghatta. Again, the interest is the vice president, you know, candidate off, uh, The Trump Asian that we, his name is Wence and his wife is that, uh, uh, Indian. Usha. Usha, yes. So, so, so, so, uh, he has, uh, you know, done it from the diaspora angle and, uh, a good story, uh, which I think was lead in the times of India, uh, as soon as, uh, his name was announced.

So is. And all times of India, you know, us correspond. In fact, this Vince 

Abhinandan: Lenz, whatever his name is, he had, uh, equated Trump with Hitler. Everyone has fallen in line. In fact, the Republican convention that happened, even the Nikki Haley, uh, you know, she's fallen in line. It's. Yeah. It's scary. This, this guy has just turned the entire party into his chaprasis.

K. 

Raman: D. Vance, I think [01:29:00] his name is written a book, which is the best sailor book, uh, hillbilly hillbilly. 

Abhinandan: It's about his, yeah, because he made millions and he comes from the rust belt, et cetera. Right. 

Manisha: So my recommendation is Marsali. Uh, the headline is austerity and immigration no longer explain the far right's rise in Europe.

I'm reading Hilal Ahmed's book, A Brief History of the Present Muslims in New India. I'm going to be interviewing him next week. So that's quite interesting. I think you should pick it up. And about a year ago, there was this frenzy in Uttarkashi around a supposed love jihad case where close to 40 families had to leave their work and their homes and just leave overnight because there was so much.

communal frenzy around a supposed Love Jihad case. Now that case has fallen in the courts, it's supposed to be a hoax. The girl at the center of this case told the court that, you know, um, the police [01:30:00] coached her into accusing these two young boys of Love Jihad. So do watch and read our reporting from a year back by Anmol.

We had sent him there and we were indicating quite a few things at that point where everyone was going with the Love Jihad frenzy. We had very detailed conversations with residents, with relatives of this girl. on how this was a right wing conspiracy. So do go back to those reports and read what we had found and watch Anmol's video reporting from there.

Abhinandan: Yeah. Important one. In fact, and all these regular mainstream, you should take this up in nuisance next time. I did this time. Oh, you did. Okay. Fantastic. This is an important one. Uh, but I, before I I just want to thank Aditya Garg who, uh, invited me to watch the semi final in his house. I was in Europe and I watched the round of 16 and then the quarter final in Munich and then Berlin.

Yeah, 

Manisha: you get into a drunken brawl. 

Abhinandan: This was not America, it was Germany. 

Manisha: I 

Abhinandan: [01:31:00] was in a train with these brawls happened, one of the Copa America brawls happened, 

Manisha: but football is synonymous with brawls, like it depends on where it is. 

Abhinandan: I mean, 

Manisha: UK, at least it used 

Abhinandan: to be, you cannot so much, but yeah, it really, yes, but no, uh, nothing of the sort, but then the semi final happened.

I want to go to this. bar because you know, the Netherlands made it to the semi final and I said, okay, I'll watch it at this bar in Amsterdam and it was pouring and bloody that bar got packed. There was no place, most people shut down because of rain basically. And then wonderful subscriber Aditya Garg had come to my house.

He had a nice big screen and I watched it there with him. So thanks Aditya, your hospitality is greatly appreciated. See that's the thing about being news laundry Subscribers anywhere in the world. They're there to bail you out of shit. Uh, like missing a cell, so, um, the. Two things that I want to recommend is one is, um, [01:32:00] this film that I watched on the flight, Hunger Games, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.

It's a prequel to Hunger Games of how, you know, Donald Sutherland, Snow, the chancellor Snow becomes such an evil dictator. And, What I found fascinating about that film, as Hunger Games go, it's not one of the better Hunger Games films. But as a commentary of television, news media, being used as a distraction, and doing the most abominably horrible things, and passing it off as normal.

I think this film shows that element so well. It is just, I mean, I think every news anchor should watch that film, and I have One day they'll cringe when they watch it. Uh, because you know, the concept is that it's a live show of people murdering each other. Oh yeah. And, and that's, that's the concept. So yeah.

So I would highly recommend that in the context of Indian news media. And the second thing I would recommend is, uh, a podcast. Is it available 

Raman: [01:33:00] on OTT? 

Abhinandan: I think it should be. If it's on, if it's on aircrafts, then I'm sure it will be. Uh, it's a three part series on, uh, this, I think it's the most valuable company in the world now, Nvidia, 

Raman: on, 

Abhinandan: uh, it's a three part series on basically this company and its founder.

And it's fascinating and just how much power this company wields now. And it's story key part series V Podcast series. Podcast series. So it, and it's on a podcast show. Uh, it's the, the, the podcast show is, the show is called Acquired. So it's a, it's fascinating. It's, it's a great learning. So yeah, these are the two.

And how, how. Powerful. This company has become the world over, you know, with its technology and chips being used in AI, et cetera. So yeah, on that note, it's great to be back, back home raining. This podcast was recorded by, I think the ratio is recording it and produced by our wonderful producer, Arjun. And I'm also once again, going to Naju, [01:34:00] please subscribe, pay to keep me straight because when the public is the public served, I'm back and I shall be back next week with the hafta.

Just reminding you, tell us where we can record, how we can make this cheaper. We need an auditorium that can accommodate about 100 to 150 people. And we will come and do a live recording of the 500th hafta. We have seven weeks to plan it. So let's get this done, guys. Mail me abinandansekari at gmail. com if you have access to any auditorium, anything, anything, anything.

And then you put up a Sena project. And you guys have to top it up. So that's 1, 2, 3, Anand 4, Shardul 5. Five of us can fly to wherever, record and then come back. Right, and our producers also. Seven, eight, nine people have to fly. I'm doing the math in my head. Guys, Please let's make this happen. Bangalore is the safest place, but if you have any other cities, sure, happy to come.

Okay, thank you all. 

Manisha: I like Bhopal. 

Abhinandan: Bhopal. I'm not sure how many subscribers you have in Bhopal. 

Manisha: [01:35:00] Yeah, maybe not. But it's a nice sweet city with lots of nice auditoriums. 

Abhinandan: A lot of subscribers. Bangalore, we have a lot. Hyderabad, we have a lot. Bombay, I 

Manisha: think. 

Abhinandan: Sorry? Bombay, 

Manisha: we 

Abhinandan: have a lot. But Bombay is 

Manisha: expensive and logistics is very hard.

Logistics 

Abhinandan: in Bombay. Even if you go to Bombay, not so many people are going to come because it's such a packed city. You know, getting from one place to the other. I mean, someone who's in Andheri in town is not going to come to, you know, Lokhandwala. It's just logistically Bombay is very, very hard. I think we'll have to do, I mean, Chandigarh is fantastic.

It's close by. Budget will be low. I don't know how many subscribers you have in Chandigarh though. But, uh, yeah, right. And let's figure it out. And we'll also be sending out mails to see where we can do 

Manisha: this. 

Abhinandan: anti Delhi? It's not anti deli, it's just that every live recording we do in Delhi, so do the 500th episode elsewhere.

That was the whole thing. 

Manisha: Poor Deli Heights. . 

Abhinandan: Poor Deli Heights. 

Manisha: Yeah, dude. Have you heard that 

Abhinandan: song? You haven't hear it now?[01:36:00] 

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